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Get Well Canada
7/1/2009 12:42 pm Last Read: |
One of the hot topics on this site and in America as a whole is the question of whether to make the U.S. health care system a single payer (government run) system or should we Americans be free and responsible enough to decide for ourselves who treats us, how and where. It also seems evident to me that many Canadians have become animated by the question of what their neighbors to the south will do with their health care. The mass media in Canada and for the most part here would make us think America is a third world country when it comes to health care. Many of us have seen the "List of Shame" where the U.S. is far below such countries as Cuba and the Ivory Coast etc when it comes to caring for the sick. The subject often centers on the cost of health care in America associated with the so-called "profiteering in the medical/pharmaceutical industries in America. And the number of uninsured here is also of great concern. While the American health care system does indeed need improvement, let us instead of ripping our system apart, take a closer look at what so many liberals here and Canadians up north want us to copy, Canadacare. When Canada first installed universal health care, one of the first steps taken was to reduce costs. The route taken was the easiest one, they mandated lower fees doctors and medical personell could charge. The result was (and still is) a systemic shortage of these highly trains individuals in Canada who retired from their profession and were never adequately replaced. The overwhelming commitment required by medical students just wasn't/isn't worth it for many. What you get up there are longer waits to see a specialist and receive treatment. The following is taken from the book by Dick Morris, Catastrophe. "The cancer death rate in Canada is 16 percent higher than in the United States . . . If you get colon cancer in Canada you have a 42 percent chance of dying. If you get it in the U.S., you have a 31 percent chance. Why? Because the top two medicines that we use in chemotherapy to treat colon cancer are not available in Canada not because of any health restriction, but because they're too expensive." "And the incidence of colon cancer in Canada is 25 percent higher. Why? Because there's a 4-month wait for a colonoscopy. And when you get the colonoscopy, it's not read by a [gastrointestinal specialist] but by an internist or sometimes by a nurse practitioner, and they miss about a fifth of the polyps that ultimately become cancerous." Morris also makes the great point that the U.S. currently has enough doctors to adequately cover 253 million Americans. Obama with the stroke of a pen, wants to cover the remaining 47 million people. But he doesn't have a way to come up with the additional medical personell that will be required. This can only be solved one way; Rationing. If there is a government take-over of our health care system such as in Canada, we cannot avoid the long waits and shortages that must result. The result has to be more deaths and suffering. As I said we do need to make our system better , more affordable and accessible to everyone. But not buy letting the some bureaucrats who run out postal system, run our health.  Are you Tdot qualified?. Check out T.W.I.N.K.S. to find out |
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7/1/2009 1:20 pm |
The French health care is good it all cost lots of money as all health care does.
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 7/1/2009 4:11 pm |
I can only take exception to what you said about our mass media talking about American health care. From what I have seen they rarely talk about it in the media, instead they talk about the short comings of our own. The issue here is about universality, that everyone gets the same access to the system, be it substandard or not. The cost of health care here is certainly a problem. Abuse exists and we aren't as rich a country as the US to be able to afford top notch health care for all. I have no idea as to who can and can not afford health care in the US. It would seem that if more money is spent on health care per person in the US, it has to come from somewhere. Obviously there is much more money available in the US than here. The rich here want better health care than those without means. I don't know what would happen to my roommate in the US if he lived there with his mental health condition. Here it's paid for, how effective it is is questionable. But without any hope of employment and millions being spent on him so far I don't know how much better off he would be in the US. I don't pretend to know all the answers, I wish I did. Canadians worst fear in most cases, is not be able to afford health care or having insurance companies deal with what is covered and what is not. I just wish we could have both government paid and private paid systems. You obviously know more about our health care system than most of us do, obviously we should be more informed. Kev, could you tell me how the poor in the US are handled compared to here. Especially when it comes to chronic illness. It's interesting on your timing of bringing this up as my roommate's 14 month old niece was just diagnosed with leukemia. Of course they don't have private health care and probably could not have afforded it being self employed. It's too bad we couldn't test both systems in a case like this and see the differences. John
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7/1/2009 4:15 pm |
Oh, by the way Kev, couldn't you have at least let us feel good on our birthday. 
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7/1/2009 5:53 pm |
Morris's second last book is: Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us ... and What to Do About It The subtitle of Catastrophe is: How Obama, Congress and the Special Interests are transforming a slump into a crash, freedom into socialism, and a disaster into CATASTROPHE . . . and how to fight back! As it has been described: "Now, in Catastrophe, Morris and McGann take a hard look at America in free fall and at how Obama is transforming a vulnerable America into a socialist state. They tell the truth about Obama and his radical policies: He will destroy our healthcare system so that no one gets adequate care. He designed his bank rescue plan to pave the way for nationalization of the banks and socialization of the economy. He firmly believes in government control of our major industries: he's already commandeered the banks and the automobile industry. He plans to reshape the political landscape to keep the left in power for decades by cooking the census, enfranchising illegal immigrants, muzzling talk radio, and coercing workers into unions. He is attacking those who fight terrorism while letting the terrorists go free. He gives aid to Hamas while Shariah law threatens to take over America. He has repealed the Declaration of Independence and put us under a worldwide, European-dominated financial regulatory system." Does it sound as though the books present a sober and objective analysis?
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 7/1/2009 6:43 pm |
Lets do away with healthcare for everyone.Let everyone see how those who never had healthcare see how they live..I'd bet those goody two shoes who have superior healthcare could not make it a month without running to canada..It one thing to work somewhere that has employee healthcare,or having your parents paying for your healthcare.Try living with any treatable disease without any form of help.Try living with a incurable disease without heathcare..The USA has thrown away enough money on other countries needs to have funded a heathcare for everyone many years ago..A united healthcare would step on the toes of the filthy rich who own drug companies,own hospitals.It would make doctors and surgeons have to accept lowe fee's..It is far to much like right..What would JESUS say?? Peace
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7/1/2009 7:13 pm |
Kev That was pretty funny. Canada has a shortage of doctors but the U.S. does not. According to what you wrote, the U.S. solved their shortage by denying access to healthcare to 47 million Americans. Very clever. Pardon me but isn't THAT called rationing? I also would like to correct John. Canada does offer BOTH public and private systems. The choice is up to the individuals. As I've mentioned before, Tyler's Family uses private clinics and hospitals. This dual system is why Canada has the second most expensive healthcare system in the world, albeit about 65% of the U.S. Oh yeah, one last thing. I got a colonoscopy in one week. I have NEVER heard of ANY delays in them in Canada. Thanks for the humour Kev XOXO Jack Take the road less travelled.
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7/1/2009 8:22 pm |
Hi Kevin; I see a lot of negativity and one sided "statistics" but no real answers or even suggestions on how we might fix the problem. Don't get me wrong here. I don't pretend to have the answers either. I wish I did. People who are financially stable and those who made their money from big business seem to have a harder time with any policy that would compete with those who are already holding the biggest pieces of the pie. Those at the bottom of the list have a hard time with any policy that doesn't. Very few people on either end of the scale are willing to compromise or work together to find a viable solution to the problem. From what I've read and heard about Obama's health care plan, it isn't a single pay plan. It doesn't eliminate the current health care plans or the insurance companies who are still getting rich by raising rates and denying claims. It merely adds another option for those who can't afford the current plans. I haven't heard what it will cost those who use it or how and where he will get the money to pay for it. I don't imagine I'll be too happy when I do find out. I'm also hearing that he isn't getting a lot of help finding solutions. He's only hearing things like "this won't work", "that's too expensive", "this will only take away from the current plan and put those people out of work". Instead of just saying it won't work, we need to try to come up with something that will and get that word out to our Senators and Representatives so that they can pass it along and maybe, just maybe, we can all come up with a viable option. I'm a veteran (from the Granada era) who doesn't qualify for VA health care because I was healthy when I left the Air Force. If it's not service related, I can't get treated. I also have a very hard time justifying paying out $800 a month for health insurance that only covers 80% of what the insurance company executives are willing to pay for after meeting an unrealistic deductable. The price continues to rise. The benefits continue to decline. I'm sorry, but that's not health CARE. It's robbery, plain and simple. I'm much better off investing my money and paying for needed issues out of pocket. There HAS to be a better way. And I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones. At least I'm healthy and make enough money to put something away. Help us find the answers. Hugs; T "Can't means you won't try." Have a comment or problem with the blogs? Go to SiteSupport
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7/1/2009 8:44 pm |
Kev I as you know I was in the Militery.So I've seen how the government handles health care for our soilders.NOT impressive. Government Health Care scares me. Another great blog kev.Keep em coming. Take care.Hugs, Phil
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7/1/2009 9:08 pm |
I didn't forget. Neither did I mention that Morris resigned form Clinton's campaign staff because he was alleged to have allowed the prostitute he was fucking listen in on his confidential phone conversations with the President.
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7/2/2009 2:08 am |
i take slight offense to this blog kev... sure it might not seem the greatest but at least i don't have to pay and arm and a leg to get drugs to help me get better... there are somethings that can be done to make it just a bit better, like have more G.P's around for family doctors or whatever, but no one wants to be a G.P anymore, its all about the money, they all wanna specialize in something to make their lives better than others... it might seem a bit rude to say this, but doctors can be very self-centered sometimes
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7/2/2009 6:20 am |
Kev - For the record, the U.S. pursues an identical policy in Education as Canada does in Healthcare. In Canada, if you opt for private healthcare, you do not get a tax refund. In BOTH Canada and the U.S., if you opt for private schooling, you do not get a tax refund. Most of the world considers BOTH Healthcare and Education as Basic Rights. This is really what we are talking about here. It is NOT quality of Healthcare. We both know both Healthcare systems have flaws. The REAL issue is "Should Healthcare be a Basic Right". The U.S. is the ONLY forst world country where it is not. You may be correct about my colonoscopy experience being antedotal but most of my friends are about my age and I have NEVER heard a complaint about delays. A close 36-year-old friend was diagnosed with colon cancer a few years ago and EVERYONE I know went to get colonoscopies. No one mentioned delays at all. Our area may be better severed than others, or Ontario may be better served, or it may be just more propaganda from opponents of public healthcare in U.S. XOXO Jack Take the road less travelled.
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7/2/2009 11:08 am |
i had done that a few times but then i realized everyone's system is different for a reason, so i really don't care what one more person thinks about health care system versus say Europe's. I don't mind it at all really, as long as i can get drugs to make me feel better and someone can tell me whats wrong with me when i need it i'm fine
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7/2/2009 5:12 pm |
Denison, that doesn't sound like a "sober and objective analysis" to me. That might be so to a person for whom objectivity is a foreign and nebulous concept. Nevertheless, stating a fact without the colour of opinion is being objective. Whether a fact is relevant can be a matter of opinion. An irrelevant fact can also sway opinion. Hence your mention of Morris working for Clinton. Morris would probably understand that. He's had a long career as a campaign strategist for Republicans, Democrats and politicians in countries other than the US. His stock in trade is swaying opinion to garner votes. Books of racy controversy sell better than those of dry objectivity. Morris has to pay those back taxes and penalties somehow and being a regular on Fox News only pays so much. Good things are often a by-product of the profit motive. Often they are not. After all, the goal is profit and not good. Fortunately profit is only one of the many things that motivate most people. In the case of the men who invented penicillan, profit wasn't a motivation at all. David
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7/2/2009 11:15 pm |
Kev. Your comprehension skills have not improved. Maybe you are just being dishonest again. I'd say it's combination.
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7/4/2009 5:58 am |
Jack your question on why an education is a right in our society and not health care is an easier one when you think about it. Human/Citizen Rights are determined by cost or length of usage? Life, Liberty & Pursuit of Happiness. Healthcare is critical to Life. Education not so much. XOXO Jack Take the road less travelled.
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7/4/2009 9:08 am |
Kev - France leads EVERY comparison of healthcare bar none. In 2005 they spent 11.1% of GDP on Healthcare. The same chart shows the U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP. EVERYONE in France is covered. In 2007, U.S. GDP was $14.3 Trillion. That means the U.S. is already spending over $600 Billion more than France relatively with much worse results. Now as for your "cost Trillions" comment - If the U.S. spends 15.3% of $14.3 Trillion GDP on healthcare and can cover the 153 Million Americans as you claim, that is ONLY $2.2 Trillion. Please explain how covering the remaining 47 Million will cost "Trillions". I love you Buddy but math does not appear to be your forte. XOXO Jack Take the road less travelled.
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7/6/2009 12:27 pm |
I am surprised that this thread - after a 30ish comment count - didn't yet explore the core nature of the question: there isn't a CanadaCare. There are as many health care systems as there are provinces in this country, since the matter is constitutionally bent to provincial governments rather than the federal one. Hence one of the major flaws in Dick Morris's book, that, btw, has been tared into pieces by its critics for its lack of methodology. Taking the worse provincial figures and presenting them as results of the Canadian medicare as a whole (without taking successful provinces into account) and presenting local or provincial problems as a Canadian one, the author willingly played the confusion card. On another note, the fact remains: we, Canadians, live in a more socialized system than even Newyorkers live in. Yet, the outlawing certain food from restaurants, schools, et al problem you raised is not an issue here, besides the rulings from Health Canada (the Canadian FDA, if you wish). It should be noted that Health Canada has a reputation of being far looser than its American counterpart (FDA) on that matter. Rationing certainly is an issue that needs to be addressed, as it is the case with any "free service". It now matters who will ration the services, and how will they do so. Why would you stick to the deciders being those who have the absolute interest declining payments as often as possible? Because, may you like it or not, they do ration... Taking my own province as an example (Quebec), it would be false to claim the health care system over here is entirely paid for by the government. First, as newfinder noted, a private system coexists with the public one. If you can't afford to wait a few months for your non-urgent MRI or orthopedic surgery, for example, you can get it done at a private clinic (for a price, or have your private insurerance company pay for it). But even the public system is, in a way, private. Only, instead of having plural insurers to choose from, everyone is bound to the sub-governmental compulsory one (RAMQ). The "prime" is a little below 500$ a year, but most citizens don't see the cost since it is assumed by employers. Only self-employed individuals have to provide the price themselves at the end of the fiscal year. And the wealthier can still enjoy an additional, fully private, coverage if they wish to. But the primes are still much much lower in the private sector for obvious reasons: they expect most of their customers' health issues will be addressed by the public sector. In short, there are not one but at least ten Canadian health care systems for you to compare if you want to make your mind about applying an universal system in the US. Incidently, all American critics of the so-called CanadaCare failed to address that matter. Coincidence? I think not...
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7/7/2009 3:34 am |
I am puzzled by your responses sometimes Kev. I seriously doubt the Canadian system is correct for the U.S. except for concept of allowing a combination of public and private health-care. However, using the genius of American ingenuity and taking the best practices from around the World, I suspect the U.S. could design a system that would work well. Yes, there will be bureaucrats involved but they can't be any more inefficient that having THOUSANDS of HMOs and health-care providers duplicating the same thing. America is blessed with the most expensive health-care system in the world and the results are not the best given no coverage for 47-million Americans ans less that stellar results vs public health-care systems. Design one that will work for U.S. As you admitted it can be improved. XOXO Jack Take the road less travelled.
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7/7/2009 6:59 am |
The Canadian's need to close the border to keep 47 million uninsured US residents to go there for free treatment.
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7/7/2009 9:07 pm |
Hey Kevin; Being one of the 47 million uninsured people that Jack is talking about, I think we're a long way from solving that issue. I shouldn't have to pay $800 a month for 80% coverage after a $1,000 to $2,000 deductible and still wonder if what I need or who I need to see will be covered or rejected by my insurance company. And then I have to wonder if I will be dropped because their Actuaries think I am too high a risk. I also have to wonder about people I know who are disabled being dropped from medicare and medicaid because they got married. Once a disabled person marries an able person, the disabled persons medical costs become the concern of the able person. They are dropped from the medicare/caid roles for only that reason. Then try getting insurance for that person. They will be rejected due to a pre-existing condition. What we need to do is look at the plans from around the world. See what parts are working and what parts are not. Then try to figure out how to make the parts that work fit into a plan that is both affordable and sensible while covering EVERYONE who is legally in this country. I'm not asking you to pay for my health coverage. I don't expect to pay for yours. I just want mine to be affordable and clearly defined. If I drive into your car and total it, it will cost me $500. That's my deductible. No hidden surprises. I could pay less per year on my insurance and have a higher deductible. But that is still all I would pay. If I'm working on your house and I destroy your roof, it will cost me $500. That's my deductible there. No hidden surprises. Give me a health care plan that allows me to pay so much per year or month or week and then, when I need to use it, I pay a pre-determined deductible, period, no hidden surprises. Insurance companies don't need to make enough money every year to build multi-billion dollar offices and pay out multi-million dollar bonuses to executives who are just cheating the company out of profit and cheating the customers out of life by denying coverage. If you are paying for health care, you should get health care and it shouldn't cost you every penny you make. Hugs; T "Can't means you won't try." Have a comment or problem with the blogs? Go to SiteSupport
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7/7/2009 9:15 pm |
Health care is not a right. Education is not a right. But you are free to pursue what you deem necessary in a legal way. Where does "the world" get these idea's from? The Declaration of Independence speaks of "unalienable human rights",.. which later appears on the Bill of Rights,... none mention health care or education. I think our founding fathers were wise to never include health care, or other "rights". due to the general evil nature of government.
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